OpenSimulator, a new beginning?

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OpenSimulator, a new beginning?

Beitragvon Magnuz Binder » So 21. Feb 2016, 09:53

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I would like to test pilot and get some input on an idea here, rather than out in the wild, like Google+. I know I am not alone in thinking along these lines, but the others I know sit tight and just watch and wait. I have been pondering some on what would be required to replace the present OpenSimulator Core, if it will derail totally, which at present seems pretty close. Some would say it actually has already.

Technically, it is simple, and has been done with numerous more or less short-lived forks of OpenSimulator already:
1. A code repository (GitHub?)
2. A report system (GitHub, Mantis or JIRA?)
3. An information repository (GitHub or Wiki?)

But then comes the needs that has made most forks, and seemingly even OpenSimulator Core, fail:
1. A governing entity which can decide on internal policies and processes, handle agreements, collaborations, sponsoring and donations.
2. A team of trusted developers (I really don't want to use the expression "core developers", since that has started to get a bad ring), willing and able to do both programming, code review, mentoring of new code contributers, and to follow decided directions, policies and processes.
3. Report system managers able to sort input into queues like bugs, feature requests and support requests, and able to direct repeated questions to a knowledge database.
4. Information managers able to build a knowledge database from existing information, questions and answers.
5. Communication managers able to disseminate information to and get feedback from users, collaborators and e.g. viewer developers.

And then the administrative infrastructure:
1. Basic, unchangeable principles, to prevent hijacking of the project.
2. Policies on government, to both prevent "Polish Parliament" and shortsighted decisions.
3. Policies on documentation of existing code, code changes and releases ("Bug fix" is NOT an acceptable commit message!).
4. Policies on handling of input like bug reports, feature requests and support requests.
5. Policies on information dissemination.

I know this seems a lot, and the devil is in the details, which will be far more extensive than the above, probably pretty incomplete, sketch. But in fact, it is all there already. I have seen the good examples for it and the people able to do it. I could actually already suggest names for most of the above functions. What is needed is a few persons willing to get it rolling, and able to build credibility and motivate enough to attract the rest. I am not one of those few persons though. I am not a leader, but a work horse and possibly an advisor, and I would love to try and contribute to such a project which I believed in.
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Magnuz Binder
 
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Re: OpenSimulator, a new beginning?

Beitragvon Uwe Furse » So 21. Feb 2016, 11:42

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.

This is a good concept, mister binder ...
Bug fix is NOT an acceptable commit message!

Haha, good rule, and so true

Cheers

Bild
Hendrix ist Gott !
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Uwe Furse
 
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Re: OpenSimulator, a new beginning?

Beitragvon Dings Digital » So 21. Feb 2016, 13:46

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Magnuz, I would trust a project like that, especially if it has a policy like that. (I can't contribute though.)
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Re: OpenSimulator, a new beginning?

Beitragvon Eryn Galen » So 21. Feb 2016, 13:49

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Everyone can, Dings. Even if its just testing the code and reporting bugs.

I would LOVE to see this happening, because a lack of structure, intent and direction imo is what OpenSimulator is lacking today. I cannot code for the live of me, and not sure how much time I could offer, but if this is happening, count me in.
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Re: OpenSimulator, a new beginning?

Beitragvon Minethere Always » So 21. Feb 2016, 15:25

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I can promote it to a degree. I have left most such social places but g+ is still good, and also allows others to reshare promotion.

I know others who like to share and promote things other than their own also.

I have just been having a private conversation with someone also interested in some ways.
My Metro blogspace http://tinyurl.com/nlgvkk3
just another quasi-anonymous ephemeral wanderer...
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Re: OpenSimulator, a new beginning?

Beitragvon Lena Vanilli » So 21. Feb 2016, 16:48

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Well written, Magnuz. As ever. ;) I liked the "polish parliament" very much! *lol*

Indeed, we have general problems: the vision, the concept, the rules and the standards. This has his continuation during the project management to the realization.

I agree with you: there are several skilled VR-enthusiasts out there who are willing to participate. And I am also sure, that we can re-activate some former developers. And I am in a good mood, that we can get an efficient administration as a stable base for the participating creatives / chaotics.

But this would be a real challenge for all participants. You know it like me, that all this would produce a new software product, based on the VR-plattform OpenSimulator. But this wouldn't be a fork. It would be a new system which also could be incompatible to the current OpenSim and (especialy) SecondLife.

OpenSim must have different base structures than SecondLife: Decentralized Communication, Administration and data-storing. Free traveling (Hypergrid) and borderless communication; combined with a modern module- and plugin-concept (like OpenCobalt, OpenWonderland).

But I am also sure, that the most OpenSim-users are "yesterday-people". They hate changes (except better graphics und selling opportunities) and they cannot live without SecondLife. And that will be the dead of OpenSim. And for sure: OpenSim will die a bit sooner than SecondLife.

If we are not willing to go own ways in VR, the OpenSim will never be attractive enough to become a standard VR-system. We should not spend more time to inspire SL-users to change to OpenSim. We should listen to the market: the community, the creative artists, the educators, the industry and (if it must be) also the army.

If we (OpenSim) don't want to sink in pettiness, we should do something. And we should do that soon and professionaly.
Alles wird gut!
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Re: OpenSimulator, a new beginning?

Beitragvon Mareta Dagostino » So 21. Feb 2016, 17:04

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Hi Magnuz,

if the need comes that the worst case happens and the OpenSim team switches to closed worlds or dissipates themselves, it would be a great idea to build up a new team ... that time with clear commitment to open source and open Hypergrid. But it will need experienced project managers. OpenSim is much too big and complicated that coders can learn their first project management skills of their life with managing that one.

Another part to think about is the actual code structure I mentioned above. Should that new fork become another try to bugfix the actual stability problems, or should it become a redesign? In the second case (redesign) the project needs tenacity, as it may take one or two years until something usable could be released. Maybe one must also think about modifications of the Hypergrid interface.

The technical thing: I prefer Github to branch out the fork and Wiki for interface documentation. The code documentation could be implemented directly in the code itself using Doxygen for example. For issue tracking, I would prefer Github if that service would be used to host the code.

Actually some forks and a redesign are already on the way, so I perceive my statements as theoretical at this juncture. Maybe creating another fork is conterproductive, if it is not really a redesign?

Ciao,
Mareta
https://hyperweb.eu => Server-Tutorial für Linux mit OpenSim, konfigurierter OpenSim Arriba Binärdownload!
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Re: OpenSimulator, a new beginning?

Beitragvon Magnuz Binder » So 21. Feb 2016, 19:16

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Thank you for your feedback so far, Uwe, Dings, Eryn, Miney, Lena and Mareta. I'll keep watching and do some more thinking, investigations and sketching based on the input I get.
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Re: OpenSimulator, a new beginning?

Beitragvon droid crazyboy » So 21. Feb 2016, 22:34

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hello
just one or two thought

VR is obviously the futur. May be I am wrong but if you think to that technology that make us look like a frogman on the sand :D it is for me more a question of viewer than simulator. keep in mind that some of the so called players wear glasses :-) and it is not a question of age

Re factoring the code would take time. It is sure that having managers and some ''visionist'' will help especially if they come from the previous team. In this case they would ''know'' all ready lot of thing that not need to be re learned from the original code

Choose of the programming language is also important if you want that not really skilled code writers wanting to the give help even in source code than ''bug'' fixing.
Would LSL or OSSL be maintain in the new simulator and then the depending of the language, you will need good skill guy to write the compiler.

You may also need guys that are skilled on the database building to give data to the simulator (one, two or more type of database will be used) each one having his own way to optimize the request.

after that, my own skills are more on database mainly Oracle (I know it is not an opensource one) but Postgre is quite similar and robust (if the databse grow a lot) or mysql is more easier to maintain and used
I can offer time for testing (some in Metro know it and became creasy :) ) or database

droid
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Re: OpenSimulator, a new beginning?

Beitragvon Sheera Khan » Mo 22. Feb 2016, 20:06

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There are some tough decisions to be made... Do we want to stay compatible with the "classic OpenSimulator" or do we want to do it right (or at least better)?
Pro compatibility:
- We have a working (well sort of..) reference implementation
- We have working clients and teams supporting them
- We have a community
If we create a new protocol (which I have to admit seems really necessary) ...
- We need to start from the beginning and we will need some years before we have a "product"
- We need to create a new viewer (client) too
- The community will split up as there sure will be folks rejecting change...

Maybe there are some more points where we could pick up:
Arriba v1 by Freaky Tech - it is a streamlined OpenSim but since the basis is broken beyond repair it is not activly developed anymore (as to my understanding)
Arriba v2 by Freaky Tech - it is a closed developement at this moment and little is known about the status of that project (http://www.gridtalk.de/showthread.php?tid=2006&pid=23819#pid23819 posting #34)
Aurora/Whitecore quite a bit different technically but at least it's running - the HyperGrid is missing though but high on the priority list...
Halcyon is a fork of OS6.x by InWorldz. It is OpenSource now as the US-Army uses it for their Moses-project. HG is absolutely missing there, but since the InWorldz-team did a lot of clean up and development there may be bits for inspiration or outright replacing some cruft in the OS-code ... I'm not sure about it being able to run on Linux servers though :-/

And there are quite some other projects like Tundra, RealXtend, and I'm quite sure there are a lot more - but none of them is really well known amongst the users of opensim. So it may be difficult to convince the community to switch to a different platform ^^

I'm open to any kind of improvement on the current situation - I'm just not capable of developing such a beast and my programming skills don't include any C# or C++ statements :-/ But I sure would like to help testing and bug reporting and even documenting or translating where needed....

Ciaoo

Sheera
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